Discussion Forum Leica S System S Lenses Leica introduces Elmarit-S 30mm f/2.8 ASPH
  • #1298
    David Farkas

    Full details on the front page: Leica Introduces Elmarit-S 30mm f/2.8 ASPH

    Feel free to discuss thoughts about the lens here.

    While I did have a chance to play with the new lens yesterday, I will be heading back to do some sample shots today. If you want to see something in particular, please let me know.

  • #1303
    Bobby Lee

    Hi David,

    Thanks for the great news. Knowing that you will test this new lens. I really would like to see if there are any visible distortion. Also concern about lens flare!

    Looking forward to see your test images.

    Thanks.

    Bobby

  • #1314
    jrv

    How does this differ from the existing S 35mm f/2.5? In what circumstances would I use one instead of the other?

  • #1315
    Cam Garner

    The math is straight forward in that the difference between 35mm and the 30mm is the difference between a 28mm and a 24mm lens in a full frame DSLR. I have found that I often need a wider angle of view than the 35mm so I'm definitely ordering one. The real question for me is do I keep the 35mm particularly if they introduce a zoom.

  • #1321
    fotografz

    In a practical sense, there isn't a huge difference compared to the S35mm unless you are precisely utilizing the full 30mm FOV … but it also depends a lot on your subject matter and applications.

    Normally my subject matter is overwhelmingly people, and the 35 (28mm in 135 terms) is as wide as I like to use for groups and environmental portraits to avoid distortion and horizontal perspective issues.

    For other wide applications I prefer a 21mm in 135 terms which would be a 24mm on the S2 … I believe a S24mm is eventually planned, so I think I'll wait.

    If someone was just buying into the S2 and wanted a wider optic, then the 30mm would make a lot of sense. 30, 70 120, 180 would be a nice 4 lens spread as is the 35, 70, 120, 180. However, I'm not sure a 30, 35, 70, 120 and/or 180 would make as much sense at these prices … but to each their own.

    Good to see them chipping away at it little by little. Fingers crossed that the CS versions will come soon.

    -Marc

  • #1322
    David Farkas

    After using the 30mm a bit I can say that the FOV is noticeably wider, but not a huge amount. Really, it is what you'd expect to be a single-focal length difference.

    I will be posting shots next week when I return home.

    Marc, yes, the 24mm is planned for release next year. It will be the equivalent of a 19mm lens in 35mm terms. Much, much wider than the 30mm.

  • #1324
    Mark Gowin

    I had the privilege of shooting with the new 30mm lens a little bit while in NYC. In my opinion, it handles just like the 35mm – the very small increase in length and weight were not noticeable. However, the extra 10 degrees field of view was more significant than I expected.

  • #1329
    Al Tanabe

    I also got to shoot with the 30 and find it more to my liking than the 35 for my applications.

  • #1330
    Mark Gowin

    I agree with you Al.

  • #1335
    fotografz

    David Farkas;1113 wrote: After using the 30mm a bit I can say that the FOV is noticeably wider, but not a huge amount. Really, it is what you'd expect to be a single-focal length difference.

    I will be posting shots next week when I return home.

    Marc, yes, the 24mm is planned for release next year. It will be the equivalent of a 19mm lens in 35mm terms. Much, much wider than the 30mm.

    That is great news David, I'll start saving for it today : -)

    I have the same wide angle focal length spread with my M9 (21/1.4 and 28/2), and ended up selling the M24/1.4 due to lack of use once I got the 21mm)

    Really depends on applications I think. The only 24mm I still have is the ZA 24/2 for the A900 … and only have that because they didn't make a ZA 21 or 28, or even a ZA 35/1.4, so it was the only Zeiss/Sony game in town for a WA prime : -(

    -Marc

  • #1373
    Pete Walentin

    David Farkas;1113 wrote:
    I will be posting shots next week when I return home.

    Dear Mr. Farkas, where are you? 😀

    Can't wait to see some picutres.

  • #1375
    David Farkas

    Pete Walentin;1169 wrote: Dear Mr. Farkas, where are you? 😀

    Can't wait to see some picutres.

    Pete,

    I have the images from the 30mm just about ready to go up…. but of course today I am a little distracted. Doing a test shoot this afternoon with some CS lenses at the beach. 😎

  • #1376
    Jack MacD

    CS lenses? What CS lenses?

  • #1377
    Pete Walentin

    David Farkas;1171 wrote: Doing a test shoot this afternoon with some CS lenses at the beach. 😎

    CS What?

    Mr. Farkas is driving me crazy.

    😮

  • #1379
    David K

    David Farkas;1171 wrote: Pete,

    I have the images from the 30mm just about ready to go up…. but of course today I am a little distracted. Doing a test shoot this afternoon with some CS lenses at the beach. 😎

    Looks like I'll be taking a trip to So. Florida soon…

  • #1380
    Kurt Kamka

    David K;1175 wrote: Looks like I'll be taking a trip to So. Florida soon…

    David, Mr. Farkas always has the best interests of your wallet at heart. 😉

  • #1383
    Jack MacD

    Kurt, your info says you are still in WI, I thought asia by now?

  • #1386
    Mark Gowin

    David K;1175 wrote: Looks like I'll be taking a trip to So. Florida soon…

    That could be an expensive trip. Leica's trade-up program for CS lenses will make it more tolerable.

  • #1388
    Kurt Kamka

    Jack MacD;1179 wrote: Kurt, your info says you are still in WI, I thought asia by now?

    Forgot to change that, Jack. Just moved in this week.

  • #1390
    Mark Gowin

    Kurt Kamka;1184 wrote: Forgot to change that, Jack. Just moved in this week.

    I look forward to seeing some of your B&W's from the new location. Good luck with your move.

  • #1393
    fotografz

    Kurt Kamka;1184 wrote: Forgot to change that, Jack. Just moved in this week.

    How exciting for you. An exotic new location … nothing like a new place to get the juices flowing. I envy you. Best of shooting to you.

    -Marc

  • #1394
    fotografz

    David Farkas;1171 wrote: Pete,

    I have the images from the 30mm just about ready to go up…. but of course today I am a little distracted. Doing a test shoot this afternoon with some CS lenses at the beach. 😎

    Oh my aching pocket book.

    Hope they are coming soon … of course they will probably be made available just as the sun disappears for 6 months here in Michigan … LOL!

    -Marc

  • #1399
    David Farkas

    In case you guys didn't see, I posted an article with some sample images and 100% crops here:

    A Quick test: Leica Elmarit-S 30mm f/2.8 ASPH vs. Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH

  • #1400
    Pete Walentin

    Great stuff. I will replace my 35mm with a 30mm. This is the FOV for landscape I loved to use and I will love it again in the future. 😉

  • #1410
    fotografz

    Excuse the interruption of the love fest … but what happened to the 30 T/S?

    I bought into the projected lens line-up, and while the 35 fits my shooting needs, I had also planned on the 30T/S even though close in FOV to the 35mm for all practical purposes, because the T/S would have brought a completely different functionality to the party making it worthwhile to own both.

    Now people are going to dump their 35s for the 30 … and what does that do to the value of the 35 which cost an arm and a leg?

    Just sayin'

    -Marc

  • #1412
    David K

    I won't be selling my 35 in favor of the 30. They are both outstanding lenses but for what I shoot I prefer the 35. I'd speculate that many new buyers will still opt for the 35 unless they have a specific need for the wider focal length. With the backlog in lens production I'm not too worried about dropping values. Back in the glory days I might have opted for both but in today's economy I'll be keeping my powder dry and waiting for the zoom…and maybe a CS lens or two.

  • #1413
    Mark Gowin

    I also expected a 30mm T/S sooner rather than later. I don't recall where that lens now falls in Leica's S lens road map. Hopefully, David Farkas can shed some light on this. I know he talked with the S product managers at length while at Photo Plus.

    The 30mm beter suits my needs for landscape photography and based on a preliminary shoot with the lens I know I want one. The problem is I already have the 35mm and would sell it to get the 30mm (don't need both). To complicate matters more, I plan to get the 30mm – 90mm zoom as soon as it comes out and would ditch the fixed focal length 35/30mm. So that makes it much more difficult to justify selling the 35mm now and getting the 30mm for the period from now until the zoom comes out. I haven't looked into the market value of used S lens, but I am sure it would cost me a few thousand dollars to make the double switch I described about.

  • #1418
    fotografz

    Seems to me that the 24 due next would be the desired lens for landscape, especially considering that by the time you crop the S2 aspect ratio to normal print ratios, you'd probably end up close to 30mm anyway.

    However, I admit that I don't do landscape work, but do get stuck in cramped shooting scenarios and also like to do sweeping environmental portraits for which a 24 would be my choice … sort of landscape photography with people in it : -)

    I've gone through this lens exercise with Hasselblad MFD, and am a bit more careful now especially at these prices. I will be very cautious about any S zoom because in MFD they are either huge or snail slow apertures … sometimes both. I have the HC 35-90 zoom which is a terrific lens but slow and big … got to have fat light to use it. I've put it up for sale for that reason. The faster and much smaller HC50-II will be its replacement.

    We'll see how Leica goes about it. Should be VERY interesting.

    -Marc

  • #1419
    David Farkas

    fotografz;1226 wrote: Seems to me that the 24 due next would be the desired lens for landscape, especially considering that by the time you crop the S2 aspect ratio to normal print ratios, you'd probably end up close to 30mm anyway.

    For me, my normal print ratio is 2:3, so I rarely crop my S2 images.

    However, I admit that I don't do landscape work, but do get stuck in cramped shooting scenarios and also like to do sweeping environmental portraits for which a 24 would be my choice … sort of landscape photography with people in it : -)

    I've gone through this lens exercise with Hasselblad MFD, and am a bit more careful now especially at these prices. I will be very cautious about any S zoom because in MFD they are either huge or snail slow apertures … sometimes both. I have the HC 35-90 zoom which is a terrific lens but slow and big … got to have fat light to use it. I've put it up for sale for that reason. The faster and much smaller HC50-II will be its replacement.

    We'll see how Leica goes about it. Should be VERY interesting.

    -Marc

    The zoom is slated to be a 30-90mm f/3.5-5.6 and be the size of the 35mm, so not very big and not too slow. Leica had originally planned for a 30-90mm f/3.5 constant aperture zoom, but decided it would be far too large and heavy. Rather, they figured a zoom with a more moderate variable aperture would be better suited to travel and portability.

  • #1421
    Kurt Kamka

    fotografz;1189 wrote: How exciting for you. An exotic new location … nothing like a new place to get the juices flowing. I envy you. Best of shooting to you.

    -Marc

    Hi Marc,

    Small towns in Michigan and Wisconsin aren't exotic locations? 😉 My relatives were quick to point out that it snowed already this week. Meanwhile, it's 88 and sunny here today, tomorrow … and …

    My biggest decision each morning is deciding whether I should wear my green or khaki shorts with my sandals. Mornings and evening are for doing my day job and connecting with clients. The rest of the day is now a fabulous opportunity to get out and shoot.

    As a bonus, the people here in the Philippines seem to have the friendliest dispositions and greatest smiles of any people I've had the pleasure of meeting. Most are more than willing to invite you to take a photo. As an example, here's a shot from yesterday …

    Kurt

  • #1422
    Kurt Kamka

    I was very excited about the possibility of a 30-90 zoom especially after having also spent some time Hasselblad's 35-90 zoom. It's a great lens, but the size and weight soon weighed in on my decision to keep it long-term. Although a zoom the size that has been described would be nice, I'm not so certain anymore whether a variable f3.5-5.6 zoom is something I would use often enough to justify it's price … unless Leica has a few S2 ISO tricks up its sleeve.

  • #1423
    Pete Walentin

    Interesting discussion and it shows the different needs and demands we have. Which also justifies a 30 and 35 S-lens and even much more. 😉

    My personal approach is only to use fixed focal zoom lenses for various reasons.

    I am a big fan of 24mm (30mm in MF). It is a classic landscape fov, it usually has less problems in the corners and less distortion compared to lenses with a greater fov. If I do need more fov landscape wise I can stitch and then I do have even bigger pictures where I can crop until the sun goes down. 😉 – So a lot of personal preferences.

    @Kurt: I am jealous. I'm currently deciding between shoes and boots. 🙁

  • #1425
    fotografz

    David Farkas;1227 wrote: For me, my normal print ratio is 2:3, so I rarely crop my S2 images.

    The zoom is slated to be a 30-90mm f/3.5-5.6 and be the size of the 35mm, so not very big and not too slow. Leica had originally planned for a 30-90mm f/3.5 constant aperture zoom, but decided it would be far too large and heavy. Rather, they figured a zoom with a more moderate variable aperture would be better suited to travel and portability.

    Well David, end usage does vary greatly depending the application …. and the file size of the S2 is fine, even for severe cropping. However, the most common crop factors do affect the actual FOV being utilized of any given lens.

    From a professional stand-point, most commercial print application ratios are not 2:3 … and wedding/portrait clients over-whelmingly order 5X7s, 8X10s, 11X14s, and 16X20s.

    Most shooters are used to 2:3 from their 135 DSLR usage … but 3:4 ratio MFD shooters are not.

    Attached is a simple comparison visualization of exactly what I mean … if I had extend the Blue 2:3 ratio to reach top-bottom fit, a fair amount of the FOV would have been chopped off.

    RE: the S zoom … sounds very nice. I doubt it'll be the same experience as the HCD 35-90/4-5.6 if it is roughly the size of the current S35 … If anything like the similar R zoom in IQ, it'll be a winner. Probably not for me as I have learned that I simply need the fast max apertures of the primes … but you never know, a nice compact travel kit with just one lens is an attractive notion.

    -Marc

  • #1433
    David Farkas

    fotografz;1233 wrote:
    From a professional stand-point, most commercial print application ratios are not 2:3 … and wedding/portrait clients over-overwhelmingly order 5X7s, 8X10s, 11X14s, and 16X20s.

    Not a wedding shooter… 😉 I love my 20x30s.

    …but, yes, I see your point. Although, for wedding album two-page spreads, I'd assume that wider aspect ratio is actually better (12×24).

  • #1435
    Mark Gowin

    Thank you for the crop comparisons Marc. You bring up a good point about cropping to the standard print sizes. However, I have never learned or understood why the standard print sizes are what they are. Those print sizes even require some cropping of 4:3 ratio originals. It drives me nuts as I much prefer the wider 3:2 aspect ratio. It just seems more natural to my eye.

  • #1436
    Mark Gowin

    David Farkas;1241 wrote: Not a wedding shooter… 😉 I love my 20x30s.

    …but, yes, I see your point. Although, for wedding album two-page spreads, I'd assume that wider aspect ratio is actually better (12×24).

    You make a good point about the album. In fact, I pre-purchased an album sample package at PhotoPlus. I figure large albums will be a very cost effective way of displaying and storing printed work. I simply don't have enough wall space to display many prints and framing is expensive. You can get large multi-page album for about the cost of framing one 20″ x 30″ print.

    Sorry for getting off topic here.

  • #1444
    fotografz

    Actually it's not really off topic Mark.

    There are two aspects to the discussion as it relates to aspect ratios and the related FOV discussion: Personal display of prints and commercially viable display.

    Prints and album applications are an important part of shooting with a MFD camera because the benefits are not as readily apparent with sub one meg jpgs in sRGB color space on a computer screen.

    @ David, doesn't 2:3 translate into 12″ X 18″ as opposed to 12″ X 24″ ?

    I actually chose a coffee table type wedding album that offers 12″ X 18″ spreads with no gutter because most wedding shots are done with 2:3 cameras (35mm DSLR, M9, and the S2). So when I shoot a wide shot of some magnificent cathedral interior, I don't have to chop the WA FOV at all. However, spreads are less used compared to whole pages that are 9X12 … which is a 3:4 ratio

    These eye popping spreads are the reason I really want the S24mm, because I will be able to shoot a wider FOV than I need and be able to correct the perspective in LR while maintaining the 2:3 aspect ratio.

    The whole print size thing also drive me nuts Mark … as my chart above shows, the most popular print sizes for consumers, and by extension pre-made frames, bear little relationship to the overwhelmingly predominate 2:3 aspect ratio. No matter how many times I lecture my second shooters and assistants to shoot loose, they continue to use the entire FOV when composing, and I'm left to deal with 8X10 print orders that don't work and require time-consuming PS work to add more to the image to make the crop. Grrrr!

  • #1446
    Mark Gowin

    I appreciate your point of view Marc. It's good to know I am not the only that has issues with the standard print/frame sizes.

    Back in my Canon 5D days I got a Brightscreen split image focusing screen with 8×10 crop lines to help me compose properly for the print. It was very frustrating every time I looked through the viewfinder and saw how much of the image I was loosing and how much it constrained the composition.

    I naturally prefer the wider FOV of the 3:2 format and I know others who prefer the FOV of the 4:3 format. What I don't know is whether they prefer the 4:3 format because it is closer to the standard print sizes or if that is what suits their eye.

  • #1447
    Jack MacD

    Your point on time consuming PS work was driven home to me when a relative asked me to “convert” a 2×3 into a 4×5 ratio by adding information into the ceiling and floor of a church. Just make your second shooters do that exercise once, and they will shoot looser.
    While waiting for the 24mm I am continuing to do PS merges.

  • #1459
    rgk

    fotografz;1218 wrote: Excuse the interruption of the love fest … but what happened to the 30 T/S?

    I bought into the projected lens line-up, and while the 35 fits my shooting needs, I had also planned on the 30T/S even though close in FOV to the 35mm for all practical purposes, because the T/S would have brought a completely different functionality to the party making it worthwhile to own both.

    Now people are going to dump their 35s for the 30 … and what does that do to the value of the 35 which cost an arm and a leg?

    Just sayin'

    -Marc

    I always use 35mm as a reference for other formats. Over the years I have settled on 28mm and 50mm as a fine (for me) walkabout kit with M cameras. I have never found a place for a 24mm lens having bought and quickly sold a few. However, I have kept and sometimes used a 21mm. So, for me my 35mm S is a keeper, the 30mm S is a non starter, and the 24mm S is eagerly awaited.

  • #1524
    fotografz

    Interesting article in LFI on the new S30mm.

    It appears that this 30mm will be the widest lens available as a CS lens. So, I may have to rethink my lens strategy … keep the 35, but get the CS version of the 30 when available. Then a 70CS and 120CS upgrade.

    Here's a tech question for the Leica lads … if you use a SF58 with a CS lens can you use TTL … since the flash can only be used in HSS mode, how's that going to work with CS lenses using 1/500th? Won't the HSS cut the flash output anyway and foil the whole purpose of CS with full power TTL flash output?

    -Marc

  • #1525
    David Farkas

    fotografz;1339 wrote: Interesting article in LFI on the new S30mm.

    It appears that this 30mm will be the widest lens available as a CS lens. So, I may have to rethink my lens strategy … keep the 35, but get the CS version of the 30 when available. Then a 70CS and 120CS upgrade.

    Here's a tech question for the Leica lads … if you use a SF58 with a CS lens can you use TTL … since the flash can only be used in HSS mode, how's that going to work with CS lenses using 1/500th? Won't the HSS cut the flash output anyway and foil the whole purpose of CS with full power TTL flash output?

    -Marc

    This is an excellent question, Marc. And one that I don't readily have the answer to….yet. 🙂 Let me see what I can find out.

  • #1815
    Cam Garner

    Does anybody know if they are shipping the 30mm yet? If so, are there any initial impressions. Thanks

  • #1816
    Pete Walentin

    Cam Garner;1664 wrote: Does anybody know if they are shipping the 30mm yet? If so, are there any initial impressions. Thanks

    They do. Even this Thread is German you may can read the pictures.

  • #1817
    Cam Garner

    Thanks for the link. It appears that are not shipping in the US yet.

  • #1825
    Cam Garner

    I guess they are shipping now as I will get my lens tomorrow

  • #1826
    Stuart Richardson

    Based on the only 2 S lenses I have used — 35mm and 120mm, I would almost say that the testing is pointless. The lenses are so incredibly good that they don't really have any weak points other than size. The only middling problem I have had is some issues with ghost reflections in extremely high contrast night photography (of streetlights etc against a black sky). So I would say just buy on focal length — there is nothing else between them!

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.