• #386
    David K

    Still want one of these for the S2…any idea when our friends at Leica will get around to it. Also, what's up with the split prism finder?

  • #577
    fotografz

    It is Leica … where patience in not only a virtue, it is a documented requirement : -)

    -Marc

  • #924
    Bobby Lee

    Hi,
    I am new to this forum. During my last visit to Paris to attend the Leica Magnum Day, I have a chance to interview Mr.Stephan Schulz, one of the engineers who design the S2.
    I hava asked the same question about the right angle view finder. The answer was a firm no! Leica developed the S2 as a small system target for a small group of users, mainly fashion photographers who need a hand held system with the image quality of a medium format camera. Right angle finder is not on the list of accessories. I have asked Mr. Schulz what if I need to do low angle photography? He suggested me to use another camera system which has this accessory! Very Leica!
    Same as extension tube for the 120mm lens. He said the 120mm is fine tune as its focusing range without any accessories. They will not make an extension tube for the lens!
    Although the answers sound disappointing, I think with enough feedback, Leica will listen and design accessories or lenses that the market needs.
    Bobby

  • #925
    Stuart Richardson

    I have to agree with him. They can't even produce enough lenses to meet demand…the last thing they should be devoting resources to is something like a right angle finder, which will only appeal to a very small and specific set of users. I don't mean to offend either of you with that, but it is not an item that many people use on a regular basis…Autofocus and digital also greatly mitigate its importance in that you can now take test shots easily at the location.

  • #926
    Bobby Lee

    Hi Stuart,

    I think the most important of all is feedback from end users. No matter how small the number, a product can only improve and survive in the market through these practical feedback.
    This is one of the reasons why I join this forum instead of the local ones in Hong Kong. There are too many Asian Leica owners bought their pieces of fine equipment for showing off or as part of their collections. Many of them do not use the equipment that often or some even not using their Leica at all. It is not a healthy sign for Leica because some day their products will not match with the needs of loyal customers (the photographers)!
    Take the example of the third parties lenses adapters. The reality for Leica is they cannot satisfy their customers with a wider range of lenses in a short period of time and they do not want to upset both their existing as well as potential customers. I do not think they love to sell the adpaters but if that can helps to attract more customers to buy the camera body, why not! They should have total confident with the performance of their S lenses in compare to the others. And this is fact!
    Using the same theory, if we keep posing top quality close up photographs taken by the 120mm lenses, there is no doubt that we will have a closeup ring soon (if Leica do not make them, someone will! Just like the third party H lenses to S adapter). By then Leica will produce their own!
    Let's do some homework and show the factory our need!
    Bobby
    Bobby

  • #927
    Bobby Lee

    Hi Stuart,
    I think the best we can do as a loyal Leica camera user is to tell the factory what we need.
    No matter how small the number of any specific pool of users, Leica can only improve their product line by listening to those who buy their cameras.
    Bobby

  • #1137
    woodyspedden

    Plus, they could have said that because of the backlogs for both S2 and M lenses that they simply did not have the resources to work on lower priority items such as the L Finder.

    Saying that the solution is to buy another system that has this accessory is a new high of arrogance, even for Leica. Germans are often misunderstood when they speak English because the language (German) is not full of subtleties but rather brusque.

    But in the end, you are responsible for what you say, regardless of language. Shame on you Stephen Schultz

    Woody Spedden

  • #1138
    woodyspedden

    Stuart Richardson;678 wrote: I have to agree with him. They can't even produce enough lenses to meet demand…the last thing they should be devoting resources to is something like a right angle finder, which will only appeal to a very small and specific set of users. I don't mean to offend either of you with that, but it is not an item that many people use on a regular basis…Autofocus and digital also greatly mitigate its importance in that you can now take test shots easily at the location.

    Hi Stuart

    I believe that the S2 is a system that for the most part one can use without other systems in ownership. (Granted that for those who shoot mega long lenses or sports action which requires rapid frame rates this doesn't apply). I primarily shoot portraits and landscapes and find I don't need another system. However as a landscape shooter there are many occasions when I do need an L finder. Angle finders are available for the M cameras and they are not rocket science to design.

    I say why not pull a few resources from the V lux and D lux systems for long enough to make a complete system of the S2 in which we are all invested

    Woody

  • #1143
    Roger

    woodyspedden;915 wrote: Plus, they could have said that because of the backlogs for both S2 and M lenses that they simply did not have the resources to work on lower priority items such as the L Finder.

    Saying that the solution is to buy another system that has this accessory is a new high of arrogance, even for Leica. Germans are often misunderstood when they speak English because the language (German) is not full of subtleties but rather brusque.

    But in the end, you are responsible for what you say, regardless of language. Shame on you Stephen Schultz

    Woody Spedden

    Certainly agree with Woody on this one. Personally I am tired of hearing about how Leica s success has created a shortage of lenses and accessories ..or how small they are .

  • #1144
    David K

    Add my voice to Woody's and Roger's. Delays in lens deliveries I can understand…but micro prism screens and right angle finders…that can't be more than resource allocation on the part of Leica. This stuff is overdue…

  • #1150
    Roger

    david

    I think its worse than an allocation of resources…because Leica will probably not make the accessories . They sure don t make the screen .

    I would give them credit for addressing the most significant issue with the camera at release ..the integration of the Adobe software with the in camera raw files . The current files are many times better than the originals . I am amazed at the IQ at say 640 even at 100% (where the large sensor has no advantage ) the files are sharp and smoother than the M9 files. Thats the power of the Maestro Chip optimizing the raw file .

  • #1153
    Bob Rudolph

    David K;923 wrote: Add my voice to Woody's and Roger's. Delays in lens deliveries I can understand…but micro prism screens and right angle finders…that can't be more than resource allocation on the part of Leica. This stuff is overdue…

    I agree.

  • #1171
    allegretto

    woodyspedden;915 wrote:

    Saying that the solution is to buy another system that has this accessory is a new high of arrogance, even for Leica. Germans are often misunderstood when they speak English because the language (German) is not full of subtleties but rather brusque.

    Ummmm… well I work regularly with German and Swiss engineers and have had many opportunities to interface with them, both in English and their native tongue

    I would politely disagree. They mean to be that arrogant. It has to do with a certain sense of their past and perceived destiny. Leica cameras are expensive, but relatively small ticket compared to laser systems. German designers/engineers are simply that arrogant. I have even made suggestions on equipment and been met with similar replies, only to have them come out with the improvement soon after having them tell me it “wasn't needed”. So I knew it was past the planning stage when they rudely shot me down. They just have “that attitude”.

    Just is, in my experience. And like it or not, often they are right…

  • #1180
    Pete Walentin

    allegretto;950 wrote: Ummmm… well I work regularly with German and Swiss engineers and have had many opportunities to interface with them, both in English and their native tongue

    I would politely disagree. They mean to be that arrogant. It has to do with a certain sense of their past and perceived destiny. Leica cameras are expensive, but relatively small ticket compared to laser systems. German designers/engineers are simply that arrogant. I have even made suggestions on equipment and been met with similar replies, only to have them come out with the improvement soon after having them tell me it “wasn't needed”. So I knew it was past the planning stage when they rudely shot me down. They just have “that attitude”.

    Just is, in my experience. And like it or not, often they are right…

    As I am one of them I could say this is the kind of attitude a lot of Germans have. It is the total opposite of what the general US American attitude is. Very, very direct. But it would fill a whole book to write about this and whats good and whats bad about it. What I do like about it is that I got a definite answer and do not have to read between the lines. Which is maybe much more friendly but could be unclear.

    Sorry for the detour – back to topic. :rolleyes:

  • #1182
    David K

    Is there any reason that you couldn't use a third party angle finder, e.g. Nikon, if you had a male/female adapter with the right threads? Shouldn't be impossible to get a machine shop to fabricate something like this. Or am I missing something obvious?

  • #1183
    allegretto

    Pete Walentin;962 wrote: As I am one of them I could say this is the kind of attitude a lot of Germans have. It is the total opposite of what the general US American attitude is. Very, very direct. But it would fill a whole book to write about this and whats good and whats bad about it. What I do like about it is that I got a definite answer and do not have to read between the lines. Which is maybe much more friendly but could be unclear.

    Sorry for the detour – back to topic. :rolleyes:

    Well, as I said, they are typically correct. Just that sometimes the attitude gets in the way. As a person who uses German cars (Porsche, MB, BMW), cameras (S2, M9), and lasers I find their “Pride of Engineering” quite reassuring on the whole.

    Right, back to topic…

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